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Looking for starter for a 69 twin cam
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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Looking for starter for a 69 twin cam Reply with quote

I have a 69 Lotus twin cam to go into my 66 MK1 GT and despite having 4 different starters none of them will work. My ring gear has 135 teeth so I either need a starter to match that or I'll pick up another ring gear, 110 tooth I guess and a 9 tooth starter. What do you have gentlemen?
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peteleo



Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 1032
Location: San Mateo,California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Original # of teeth should be 132 for the Cortina 1600 and TC 1600.
Starter should be an 11 tooth. I'm not familiar what starter should go with a 135 tooth but believe that a 11 th starter should work. I have a rebuilt 11 th starter plus solenoid if needed. Pete
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Brett Wilkie



Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 1280
Location: Vancouver British Columbia Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My own notes show a 10 tooth for the 135 ring but I recorded that a while back, have read around the internet to find more info like this one thread.
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-twincam-f39/starter-motor-woes-t32068-15.html
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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, there seems to be so much contradiction on the correct pinion for a 135 tooth ring gear. I don't know whether a 10 or 11 tooth will be best, I guess it's possible for both to work and I'm good with that as long as I don't end up with a mashed ring gear. Drop me a PM with a cost for your starter Pete and I'll keep looking up recommendations. Thanks.
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Sideways



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 321
Location: Delta BC Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do yourself a favour and use a Japanese starter - you will need to fabricate a sandwich plate but the difference in reliability, turning over and weight is well worth the effort.

Sorry, can't remember which brand it was that I used...
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Brett Wilkie



Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 1280
Location: Vancouver British Columbia Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sideways wrote:
Do yourself a favour and use a Japanese starter - you will need to fabricate a sandwich plate but the difference in reliability, turning over and weight is well worth the effort.

Sorry, can't remember which brand it was that I used...


You are right but there is a bit of a $$ pill to swallow, I ended up getting the starter and flywheel from Dave Bean. The flange on the starter mated up perfectly with the sandwich plate, I don't know if he had these made special for the Ford based engines or not? I bet the starter is Japanese but not 100% sure as the labeling is missing on the starter.


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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That starter looks remarkably like the one I have Brett, mine also has no markings of any kind and I got it with the motor. When I tried mine to the motor I found that either the solenoid bit was in the way of getting the top bolt in or it was touching the frame. Maybe I need to rotate it more and have the solenoid at the bottom? I’ll have to check when I get home but I think that is a 10 tooth. Do you have any issues with clearance? I’d also be interested in a wiring diagram if you got one with yours.
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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here’s my starter but unfortunately it’s 9 tooth so I guess it won’t work anyway.

Or maybe it’s possible to change the gear? But I still don’t know if it will fit.
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peteleo



Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 1032
Location: San Mateo,California

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the Lotus elan forum a 135 ring gear diameter is larger than the 132 r/gear. So apparently the Lucas 11 th starter won't work.

Lucas starters are reliable if properly rebuilt including refurbishing the solenoid.
Below is a HD rebuilt 3 bolt Lucas starter. I've cut the center mount off for better clearance to fit the Cortina / Anglia. These will last for years in a original spec engine.


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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many teeth on that starter Pete or is that the 11 tooth you previously mentioned?
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peteleo



Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Posts: 1032
Location: San Mateo,California

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured is an 11 th. I also have a rebuilt 9 th including solenoid.
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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I’ll have to do some more research but I might have a use for one of them Pete, just got to figure out the best route.
Ps I agree about the Lucas starters, I bought one off you a while back for my MK11 Lotus powered GT and it has to be the best starting vehicle I’ve ever had.
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Brett Wilkie



Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 1280
Location: Vancouver British Columbia Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1970 cortina GT wrote:
That starter looks remarkably like the one I have Brett, mine also has no markings of any kind and I got it with the motor. When I tried mine to the motor I found that either the solenoid bit was in the way of getting the top bolt in or it was touching the frame. Maybe I need to rotate it more and have the solenoid at the bottom? I’ll have to check when I get home but I think that is a 10 tooth. Do you have any issues with clearance? I’d also be interested in a wiring diagram if you got one with yours.

I would say that your starter is the same as mine, it's a 9 tooth that is meant to engage with a 110 tooth ring gear. As far as the actual clocking goes between the starter and mounting flange you would have to experiment, I ran into similar problems as you but don't forget my car is a 100e Anglia so the cross member is likely not the same as a Cortina. I did find a happy spot though but it makes the hot post on the starter quite close to just under the oil pan lip but it is safe. I ended up buying a short battery cable and making it part of the starter motor assembly, I used some big heat shrink tubing and shaped the cable around the starter with the aid of a small clamp and some wire ties to make it all work.



As far as power delivery to the starter goes I have my battery in the trunk with a long cable running up and in to the engine bay where it connects to a common terminal, the starter cable also is connected to this same junction. This makes it real easy when you have to remove your starter for any reason.

I did one additional thing on my own car just for a bit more safety, I don't like the idea of a heavy cable running from the rear of the car to the front that is always HOT as it is a big fire hazard in the event of a collision. I put a stock American Ford starter solenoid in the trunk near the battery that activates only whilst cranking. You will though have to put a somewhat heavy power supply cable in for basic vehicle needs but a 60 amp fuse should protect that.

As far as wiring diagram goes on the starter, the only heavy connection on the starter is obviously to the battery and the small male connection shrouded in plastic is for activating it, the other smaller connection I am guessing is likely for bypassing the ignition ballast resistor if you have one although I never verified that.
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1970 cortina GT



Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good information there thanks Brett. I guess the easiest way would be to get another ring gear, 110 tooth, I'll have to get this starter tested and also I just noticed that the 'clock" adjusting bolts have been over tightened and stripped the thread in the housing so I'll have to mess around with that a bit. I think I should be able to make it fit looking at how you have mounted yours. Hopefully there aren't too many variations on ring gear size for my flywheel. Thanks again.
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Brett Wilkie



Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 1280
Location: Vancouver British Columbia Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 110 ring gear is a good thing to have on, it will work with your starter and even if that fails Pete has a 9 tooth that will work. Be carful though as there are two common sizes of ring gear and they are close in size so accurately measure your flywheel. Dave Bean has ring gears (around $45.00??) so I would talk to Ken there and ask about compatibility. I noticed the 110 ring gear on my flywheel is beveled front and back to accept inertia or pre-engaged type starters. Look closely at the gear, this is what I mean.

If you get a ring like this it will also allow you to use the inertia type but then you would have to install the remote solenoid. When I looked at my starter collection I found that all the inertia types were 9 tooth.

You see the longer inertia starters on the right of the photo, I have never tried one in a 2000e bell housing to see if they are too long or not?? Maybe Pete has tried one on and could say?
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