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Ford T9 (Merkur) 5-speed to Kent block

 
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s2europa



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Ford T9 (Merkur) 5-speed to Kent block Reply with quote

Is there a readily available bell housing that will bolt to the Merkur T9 5-speed transmission and in turn bolt to the Kent seiries of blocks? I'd rather not have to source one from Redline to the tune of $$$$. Maybe something in the line of the Pinto 1600 or Capri 1600? Thanks, Dan
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IFHP
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1506
Location: Olympia, Washington

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: T9 to a Kent Reply with quote

Dan,

It woud surprise me if a T9 could be mated to a Kent 1600 as the Kents and the OHCs (a.k.a. Pinto) were totally different engines.

Michael
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s2europa



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

I think with the bell housing change it can be done. The Caterhams are doing it with the crossflows and Zetecs (same bell housing bolt pattern). Race line has a bell housing to suit, but pricey and shipping is a deal breaker. I was hoping there was an existing bellhousing state side that might fit the bill.

Dan
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mkchapin



Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: how about a rear axle instead? Reply with quote

We wanted to switch to a 5-speed tranny on our mark II Cortina, but found changing to a different rear axle much easier. 20 years ago, we took a rear axle from a 6 cyl Capri. Needed to mount it about 1 inch further back with some home made brackets as the differential housing was a little longer. Also needed a different flange to match the driveshaft to the differential, but this was readily available, no need for a custom job. This changed the ratio from 3.9 to 3.22. Then we put on oversize tires, changing from P165-80R13 to P185-80R13. Now a speedometer reading of 55 is an actual speed of 71.6.

We hoped to get better fuel economy. And maybe we did, but it made the car much easier to drive at 70 mph, and you need to go that fast on the freeways around here. The car was considerably quieter, with the engine running at 800 fewer rpms at 60 mph. And, if it is causing more wear on the clutch, it is not much as we are still using the same clutch 100,000 miles later.
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Dave A



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burton power has bell housings with left or right starter mountings but run about $300.00 plus shipping. I havent done the job yet but I think you would be required to rework your clutch as well. https://www.burtonpower.com/product_main.aspx?home.aspx

You may be lucky to get a used one from across the pond as the European Ford Sierra used the type 9 trans. These were from what i can tell, all left hand mounted starter so another starter would be necessary. Hopefully the flywheel will be okay but may need another clutch, clutch lever/rework etc. I added a couple pics. The first is type 9 from a Sierra. The second is T5 from a Ford Cosworth.


You may also be able to have your old bell housing reworked to accept the type 9 trans. Depending on the car you have, you will likely have to modify the trans tunnel for clearance issues and shifter location, fabricate a rear trans mount, find a proper length driveshaft, rework your speedo cable and gearing and reversing lamp circuit. Definitely quite a bit of work!!!!
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Kiwi Cortina



Joined: 20 Dec 2011
Posts: 273
Location: Novato Ca

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, what did you do to remedy you bell housing issue. I received a T9 yesterday for my current MK2 Estate project and the bell housing it came with, the 2 holes across the top don't match the block.

Brent
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Brett Wilkie



Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Posts: 1100
Location: Vancouver British Columbia Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is some info on putting one behind a twin cam so same bolt pattern. There is a file a little further down in that thread that has some good info too.
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/lotus-gearbox-f37/question-bell-housing-t26074.html

I wondered too if the Pinto 1600 bell housing could work or be modified to work? Some time back I was comparing the alloy Pinto housing to the Cortina 2000e and Anglia 105e, maybe a concentric release bearing could help things too?? The Pinto housing in these pics has a cable operated clutch.






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mark



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 55
Location: south carolina

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiwi...when you say the two top holes dont match the block...is it the XR4TI bellhousing? They mounted high up on the Pinto 2.3 block...see the two bolts at the top...I had to remove these two bolts and the Xr4Ti bellhousing used these holes. The 2 holes about an inch lower is where the Pinto bell bolted to. I dont know how the Kent compares, but to make this work on the 2.3, I had to use the Merkur bell, fork, fork ball pivot, and throwout bearing. The merker bell is longer than the pinto to match the increased input shaft length of the T9.

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Kiwi Cortina



Joined: 20 Dec 2011
Posts: 273
Location: Novato Ca

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it must be a Merkur Bellhousing as the top to bolts are high up the block. You can see the difference in the bell housings in the picture.



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anthonid



Joined: 31 Dec 2016
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is actually very easy to mate merkur gearbox to both a kent and 2.0ohc pinto engine. i have done it this way successfully twice. i mean successfully as in i drove my car across the country from az to nc twice with no issues.

as previously mentioned the top two bolts dont line up. doesnt matter just dont bolt them up. it will never ever do any harm with as little power these engine make. in the past several years of working on aircooled porsches and vw's i have pulled probably 50 engines and i bet only a 1/4 of them had all their bolt in them, and those engines are made of play dough.

so how i have done it both times, first time on a 711m kent engine and recently on a 2.0 ohc ( which happens to have the same bolt pattern as the kent as well as sharing flywheel and dimensions). on the kent engines you need a 71-72 pinto flywheel from a 711m engine, for the clutch you can use a hillman imp clutch disc which is 7.5" diameter with the correct 23 spline input shaft for the t9. you use the standard kent pressure plate. if you use the gearbox and bellhousing from a merkur (which most likely you will in the u.s being that it was the only car here with that trans) you will have no issue with input shaft depth and you may use the standard pinto pilot bearing. you use a merkur starter which also happens to be basically every ford from the 72 pinto with any engine all the way to the late 80's mustangs with the 2.3.

the hardest part is in all of this which is actually quite simple is switching from a hydraulic operated clutch to a cable. first buy this http://www.ebay.com/itm/MPS-TRIPLE-HOOK-ADJUSTABLE-CLUTCH-CABLE-QUADRANT-KIT-FIREWALL-ADJ-FOX-MUSTANG-/120915843713?hash=item1c27255a81:m:mTelP-qKj42zOGaNnsvsYkg&vxp=mtr

now you basically just bolt that cable quadrant to you existing clutch pedal. it is very important to mount it correctly to ensure proper cable action. the cable must leave the housing without having an extreme angle towards the pivot. that is where it gets tricky, too little angle and it wont disengage the clutch fully to much and your clutch will work great but the cable will wear through the end of the housing quickly and will become sticky. it will be very tempting to just mount the cable adjuster in the old master cylinder hole but that puts the cable at a very extreme angle, i had to use a 1 3/8" hole saw about 1 inch above the old master cyl hole.

this sounds more difficult than it actually is, i can post pics if you want some clarification.

as for the driveshaft i just got a new one made using a slip yoke suiting a early 25 spline c3 trans as found in early mustangs with a straight six. it used the cortina rear flange.

so the most difficult part to find for this conversion other than a good t9 from a merkur is the correct flywheel. it must be from a kent powered pinto. it is the only car we got over here that used a kent engine with a modern ford starter. the starter ring gear depth is 3/4" of an inch shallower than the lucas starters in the cortinas.

i just finished installing a t9 in my 68 gt with a 2.0 pinto and it was identical to doing it on a kent with the exception of the clutch being an 8.5" disc.
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old username is turbellion, cant find my password.
current enfo is a 68 cortina gt with a 2.0 ohc pinto and t9 5 speed.
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anthonid



Joined: 31 Dec 2016
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wait brent, i think i sold you one of my transmissions? small world here in enfo land! since you are putting that into a mk2 i should also let you know that i did have issues with starter to steering linkeage clearance. i remedied it by getting this http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Lightweight-Mini-Starter-Kit-PMGR-Ford-2-3-Turbo-Mustang-SVO-Merkur-XR4Ti-/192048390949?fits=Make%3AMerkur&hash=item2cb6f9e325:g:DYkAAMXQlgtS8xoi&vxp=mtr

which gave me a bit more clearance and allowed me to forgo using the external starter solenoid the stock pinto/merkur/mustang starter used.

as for the bolts not lining up, i have put several thousand hard miles on my mk1 gt without those bolts. i never had any issues with that conversion. that car is now in LA owned by shinya kimura. i built that car in 2007 and drove the hell out of it. as far as i know shinya hasnt had any issues either. the starter issue is more concerning.
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old username is turbellion, cant find my password.
current enfo is a 68 cortina gt with a 2.0 ohc pinto and t9 5 speed.
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anthonid



Joined: 31 Dec 2016
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a link to some pics where you can see the way i modified the clutch pedal for the cable.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Bmcj4
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old username is turbellion, cant find my password.
current enfo is a 68 cortina gt with a 2.0 ohc pinto and t9 5 speed.
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Harrie D



Joined: 25 Dec 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A T9 5 speed box from a Sierra 1600 / 2000 OHC/Pinto will fit straight onto a Kent .
This T9 is in fact a 4 speed box with an overdrive .
The bell housing of a Cortina 3 / 4 / 5 1600 / 2000 OHC will fit also straight on the 5 speed as the original box is the same .
But mind , don't mix it up with the 1300 / 1600 box with aloy topcover .
Mind 6 cilinder T9 boxes have a longer primary shaft and some have a big bearing layshaft which sticks out in the bell housing .

http://fcapri.homelinux.com/fcapri/capri2/gallery/motor/Pcdv0377.jpg
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anthonid



Joined: 31 Dec 2016
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey harrie, yes you are correct those sierra boxes will fit straight up, however this being a north american enfo site it is important to note that we never got those guys over here. we only had a version of your xr4 variant called the Merkur Xr4ti. literally the only car imported into the united states that had a t9 gearbox. the bellhousing has a slightly different bolt pattern but is close enough to work on kents and ohc pinto's by only using the lower 4 bolts on the bellhousing. the upper two are slightly off.
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old username is turbellion, cant find my password.
current enfo is a 68 cortina gt with a 2.0 ohc pinto and t9 5 speed.
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Harrie D



Joined: 25 Dec 2012
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know these cars are not common over there but i see sometimes pictures of a car in USA i don't expect to be there .
The info in my message is that you might be able to fit a Cortina 3 bell housing onto this T9 gearbox although i don't know if Merkur has the long primary shaft or the big bearing on the layshaft .
The standard T9 box was to weak for the job and many died an early death , the overdrive ( 5th gear ) was driven over the layshaft and the old 4 speed box on which it is based was not up to that .
I don't know if you have them there but the MT75 gearbox is a lot stronger but in most cases they have a propshaft flange on them wich means you have to make a propshaft which slides at the midle bearing if you have a live rearaxle .

Harrie
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