Anyone ever build a 3-bearing?

Langlia · Post by **Langlia** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:32 pm

Curious if anyone's every built a three bearing motor? I have a 109E, always hear everyone say it's junk, get a 5-bearing. I get that.. Makes sense, but if I want to go for a "Period" correct motor, etc.. Due to a another motor not being available and so forth..

I saw the 1340 Cosworth Lotus 7 motor on EBay. 85 HP Is not bad I think, Not sure what the internals looks like, I'm sure there's some head work done, maybe reinforced centre bearing..

Can a 109E block be bored out at all?

Does anyone know what's the highest output three bearing streetable 109E block anyones built?

Thanks guys!

Post by **peteleo** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:08 am

105E block was superseded by the 109E. It was used as a 997,1198, and 1340 depending on the rod length and crank stroke. In unmodified form they had a 100K life. The 105E and 109E cranks are hollow thus not desirable for racing as they were pron to break. 113E crank is solid and can be used for racing with steel main caps.
105E/109E blocks can be safely bored .040 possibly .060 on some blocks.
105E Kent series engines were used by a majority of English car manufactures i.e. Lotus, Marcos, Ginetta, Morgan, etc including Formula Junior. 105E 1 litre Output is 90HP up to 120 HP with a steel crank, rods, main caps, DCOE's and so on. All parts for these early Kent engines are available. Pete S

JAN · Post by **JAN** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:52 am

I've been using the 105E / 109E block in 1198cc form for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles in mildly tuned form. I've never had crankshaft problems in all that time, all rebuilds being necessitated by top end problems: pistons and / or rings. I tend not to take the rpm much above 5,000 which might be the reason, something not viable with a racing engine. Other have had similar success at 1342cc.

Langlia · Post by **Langlia** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:19 am

I thought they went to a solid crank in the early sixties after having problems with the hollow ones?

Question..?

What would a 1500 Head do to a 1198 Motor? In terms of rough gains/losses in power, compression?

JAN · Post by **JAN** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:16 am

JAN wrote:I've been using the 105E / 109E block in 1198cc form for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles in mildly tuned form. I've never had crankshaft problems in all that time, all rebuilds being necessitated by top end problems: pistons and / or rings. I tend not to take the rpm much above 5,000 which might be the reason, something not viable with a racing engine. Other have had similar success at 1342cc.

I'm not sure the 1342 crank did, that engine wasn't in production for long, about eighteen months.

I could calculate the drop in compression ratio by fitting a 1500 head but I can't see the point of the exercise anyway. Performance and fuel consumption would both suffer for no advantage I can see.

Langlia · Post by **Langlia** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:30 pm

Just curious about it since it has bigger valves.

As far as the crank being hollow or not just wonder why Cosworth would use a 1340 with a weak crank.

Might have a lead on a motor.. maybe

JAN · Post by **JAN** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:44 pm

I suppose that they wanted the biggest engine in the range, and up to 1963, that was the 1342. Personally, I'd use one if I found one, but I'd treat it with respect!

Harrie D · Post by **Harrie D** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:06 pm

If I want to go for a "Period" correct motor but don't like the 3 bearing engine there is a better engine which is 5 bearing and pre crossflow .
Its the Early Cortina MK2 1300 engine but finding one might not be that easy as it was only a short time in production .
I got myself a few of them as we got 2 Anglia 105E and think its a much better engine as the 3 bearing type .
I have not tried it but it might be possible to build an engine like this from a later crossflow engine , the bore is the same but don't know wich conrods to use .

Harrie

Post by **peteleo** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:11 am

Like Harrie mentioned. 1300 pre-c/f is a prefect engine in a 123E. The drum brakes can handle the additional 6 hp.
2730E engine was available in the Cortina MK2 '66-'67. The car was imported to N. America but only to Canada. U.S. model got the 2731E 1500.
They occasionally come for sale. Pete

Langlia · Post by **Langlia** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:28 pm

Found a 1600 local

complete just needs a cam and a rebuild.

Brett Wilkie · Post by **Brett Wilkie** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:22 am

Langlia wrote:Found a 1600 local complete just needs a cam and a rebuild.

What sort of X/Flow did you get, block numbers?? What happened to the cam? I would expect any X/Flow you find these days will need a rebuild so tell us more about it?

Langlia · Post by **Langlia** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:26 am

It's nice knowing you can find exactly what you're looking for within a 5 minute drive

681F I believe it was. It's an original 1600 GT Motor, block will need a hot tank and hone. The seller is going to get all the parts together for me and will call me when it's ready for pick up. Went out with my Fiancee and Grandpa to take a look, Will also be getting the Weber DCD, Intake Manifold, Original 4 Branch, 6 bolt flywheel.

The head has been rebuilt already, and the crankshaft has been polished and balanced.

The camshaft was in pretty bad condition, will need to be reground or just buy a new one..

He's also got a gearbox, bell housing.. possibly a complete strut and disc setup. My bank account will be slightly emptier soon.

Langlia · Post by **Langlia** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:28 am

Oh also pistons. Yes now I remember, besides the camshaft I'll need con rods. Any possibility you might have some spares Brett?

Post by **peteleo** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:35 am

Struts from the MK2 is a prefect set up for the 105E. I've done these mods before so let me know when you get that far.
28/36 DCD originally came on the 1500. Unless it's been jetted for the 1600 engine.
I may have a extra set of 2737E rods in case Brett doesn't. Pete

Brett Wilkie · Post by **Brett Wilkie** » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:19 pm

I do have a set of rods and even some new +20 pistons, I believe they are Repco made?? I also have a used cam here with these specs but it might not be much better than the one you have? If it where me I would do a grind with new followers, the followers you need are also the smaller type for your older block. Try looking on Ebay for those or you might be lucky enough that your old ones can be reground, Shadbolt does great work on this sort of thing.

The thing with my stock compression pistons is that you would have to rebore the cylinders and if you are doing that you might as well use 1300 pistons for a 10.3 to 1 compression. Is the head the old style too? does it look like the one in this picture with the small chambers? This will determine what type of pistons you do use, the flat head in the picture needs pistons with valve pockets.

I hope that you are not in a huge rush as I am in Gibsons at the moment and may not be back to Vancouver for a weak or so.